Tommy Shelton

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odie1962
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 am America/Denver

Re: Tommy...

Post by odie1962 »


I am not defending Tommy here, nor am I condemning him, please understand that. If there is any truth to any of this then that needs to be determined by the right people, but I do not believe the right people are the Glenn Drydens or Bob Pickles of the world who have agendas apart from the allegations and have used them to further there own self serving needs, or those who have only heard what they have to say and accepted that as factual, or at least been confused by that and formed misconceptions etc. I have always said and I maintain that TS's guilt or innocence is best determined by his church ( which is the Church of God for those who don't know) and the proper authorities. I do think there is something strange and not right about how this has all come down, but am not going to post about that at this time.
I have no doubt you are 100% on Pickle.I imagine he is gleefully anticipating the many ways he can use this.
The authorities aren't known for going to the length they have on this because of a whim or gossip by someone like Bob Pickle.
It is obvious from the letter TS wrote that this man has a problem in this area. DS is not responsible for any molestation of young men by TS UNLESS he knew.
If these two coming forward are different than what has been reported previously it is hard to believe that 3ABN was ignorant of the accusations and the letter.
I have not kept track of the time frame that TS worked for 3ABN or in what capacity. If TS worked there after the accusations surfaced he can expect to be held accountable by some
That said, what I am going to do is post and defend 3abn in this instance, and I don't apologize for that as I believe the facts and timeline (which I researched for myself and caused me to come to the conclusions I did, after not receiving any answers to my questions from either Pickle or Dryden) demonstrate that they acted conscientiously according to what was known when all this was brought to their attention by the Church of God Pastor, Glenn Dryden in 2003. It is my personal opinion and judgment that they can not be faulted for that, despite the Monday morning quarterbacking going on. And Yes, Linda was then on the board and the entire board voted in consensus at that time after discussing all that was known.
It is not uncommon for someone like Pickle to use conduct like this to their advantage. Done all the time.Does not make the conduct any less real.
Can't tell you how many Bob Pickles surfaced in my sons case. All to help of course. Pity it was their own agenda they wanted help with.
Still with all that,the actions were real and disgusting.
The turning a blind eye and thinking that someone would only do this once and learn their lesson is not true. The denomination as a whole has a proven track record of how we deal with this type of behavior and it is not something to be proud of.Moving to a new area,termination of employment because of illness etc,claiming ignorance is more common than not.One thing you should hope and pray for is this does not bring other victims out of the wood work. 1 or 2 victims generally men a lot more that have kept it secret.

If DS or LS knew of the problems with TS and it can be proven,they should have to answer.
Regardless of the reasons any that hide this type of behavior and by doing so collude with the sexual predator by that silence is as guilty of the act as the predator himself
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Cynthia
Posts: 618
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Re: Tommy...

Post by Cynthia »

odie1962 wrote:

It is obvious from the letter TS wrote that this man has a problem in this area. DS is not responsible for any molestation of young men by TS UNLESS he knew.
If these two coming forward are different than what has been reported previously it is hard to believe that 3ABN was ignorant of the accusations and the letter.
I have not kept track of the time frame that TS worked for 3ABN or in what capacity. If TS worked there after the accusations surfaced he can expect to be held accountable by some... IF this was known before these two and I believe it was from TS own admission via the letter he wrote, any that knew and placed him in a unsupervised position as far as young children goes may have some explaining to do. As to anything between DS and LS of course it wouldn't, unless LS was also aware there could be a danger
Sigh.. I wish you would have waited here...

First part...

You started this topic here about the charges against Tommy which have just been filed. They are the first ever. They are in regards to 2 men in Virgina who allegedly came forward in 2008, and yes, the charges are for alleged child molestation.

Now you say : "it is obvious from the letter he [TS] has a problem in this area" What area area you speaking of? It is certainly not obvious to me he had a problem with child molestation from that letter. Clem was nineteen or twenty , yes a young man, but certainly not a child back in 1984 when the alleged wrong relationship occurred.

The letter TS wrote to Duane Clem does confess to wrong doing but has nothing to do with child molestation. Further it is dated June 13, 2005, and according to Clem himself he never said one word against Tommy nor shared that letter till he talked to Bob Pickle and fwded it to him on Jan 8 2007, and Pickle claims he first talked to Duane on Jan 2nd 2007.

Further although Clem's reply to Tommy has never been published, he admits to it. In that reply he told Tommy he had nothing to apologize for as he had never hurt him...

So, no, I don't know how 3abn could know anything about Duane Clem accusing Tommy nor of the letter allegedly written to him.

Some dates:
The letter sent to 3abn by Glenn Dryden is dated May 14, 2003 and that's when they delt with the issue.

Tommy Shelton retired from 3abn in 2006 and the televised 3abn special when that occurred was broadcast by 3abn on December 31, 2006. Duane Clem never came forward or said anything to anyone until the following week.

(Why he said anything against Tommy to Pickle when he did is a different story as he started out on BSDA attacking Dryden and Pickle and had actually always defended Tommy up till then.)

-------- Original Message --------
From: Duane Clem
Subject: FW to [Bob Pickle]: Re: Hello
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:24:24 +0000

It is with great heaviness of heart that I forward this email. Please be very conscientious about its use. I hope this can help bring a resolution to the horrible situation at hand.

From: "Tommy Shelton"
To: "Duane CLem"
Subject: Re: Hello
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:53:09 -0500

Hi Duane,

I received your e-mail a couple of days ago. I guess you sent it longer ago than that, but I am not home several days a week. It sounds like you are doing what makes you the happiest - being involved in Gospel music.

Duane, I have spent the last several years trying to straighten my life out. As you well know, I had a big problem and should have gotten help years ago or got out of the ministry. To be honest, I really didn't know that I needed help then, but of course I know now. At the time, I knew that I loved God and wanted to help people, but my problem always got in the way.

You will remember that before I went to D.C. I apologized to you and told you that I wanted to make a new start and I have been trying to do that ever since. I've been honest with my wife, whom I almost destroyed with what I did.

I have been honest with her that some inappropriate things happened between you and me - all my fault - and I also told her that you resisted every attempt that I ever made. You and I both know that is true. I know now that I took advantage of how much you cared for me, and I am shocked that you will even speak to me.

Because of what I have done to Carol, you and others, it is not good for me or you to try to rekindle a friendship. Please understand, the last thing I want to do is hurt you more. I've hurt you enough for a life time. I'm sure that you have felt that I have abandoned you, and you are right, that was part of my sickness - run when things got hot. For all of this, Duane, I am so sorry.

If it would help you with some of the hurt you have experienced, Carol and I are both willing to sit and talk to you. Although Carol was very hurt at you for several years for continuing to be friends with me when you knew she didn't want us together, she too has been working on finding healing and has forgiven us both. Naturally she could never be comfortable with me having a one on one friendship with any one from the past, she is willing, however, to do what ever she can to help if you may be still carrying some scars from my relationship with you.

Carol may possibly write to you too, just letting you know that we do care what happens to you and if there is anything we can do together to help, or help make things right, we are willing to do. If you need to ask her anything, we share the same e-mail account.

I do thank you for the many years that you were a friend to me. I loved your mother deeply and cared for all of your family. It is unbelievable that I could make such a mess out of everything. I hope you can someday find it in your heart to forgive me - I am really trying to do right.

Tommy
~ Cindy
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Cynthia
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:00 am America/Denver

Re: Tommy...

Post by Cynthia »

Duane asked me the following on adventtalk.

Re: Tommy Shelton arrested!
« Reply #97 on: Yesterday at 05:21:44 PM »

Ian, am I to understand I'm being accused of changing my story over at your site?

Duane Clem
No, that was not my intention. I may have worded my post badly. If so, I apologize.

When I said:
(Why he said anything against Tommy to Pickle when he did is a different story as he started out on BSDA attacking Dryden and Pickle and had actually always defended Tommy up till then.)
I simply meant , it is a different part of the story then the part which I was trying to relate, and a separate issue from the one I was addressing with Odie.

To further clarify. I was explaining to her that 3abn could not have known about you or the letters between yourself and Tommy when Dryden wrote to 3abn in 2003 because the letters were not written until 2005. And I was further attempting to clarify that you never made any statement against Tommy nor made his letter public until you talked to Pickle on BSDA, a week after Tommy retired from 3abn (Dec 31, 2006).

All 3abn would have known about you, if anything, was what others knew, ie; that you had been one of those who had defended Tommy and had to all appearances been his friend all those years.

I was also trying to clarify the following, as the topic was actually about the 2 allegations of child abuse in Virginia, leading to the charges filed against TS there.
Now you say : "it is obvious from the letter he [TS] has a problem in this area" What area area you speaking of? It is certainly not obvious to me he had a problem with child molestation from that letter. Clem was nineteen or twenty , yes a young man, but certainly not a child back in 1984 when the alleged wrong relationship occurred.
If I have portrayed anything inaccurately in what I have posted here in this thread, you are more than welcome to set the record straight on either forum, Duane. I would like to be as accurate as is possible.
~ Cindy
Pat Williams
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:08 pm America/Denver

Re: Tommy...

Post by Pat Williams »

Sister wrote:
3abn_defender wrote: Excuse me mrs53, Tommy Shelton has already been brought to "justice." Complaints were filed, a warrant was issued, he surrendered to the police and was charged and arrested, and will now be able to face his accusers and they and he have the right to a fair trial.
3ABN_Defender, from your statement that I have quoted above, it is obvious that you have no concept of the meaning of the term justice. Tommy Shelton has not been brought to "justice" he has merely entered into the first step of procedures in the justice system that will lead to him being prosecuted for pedophilia. Since Tommy has been charged and arrested, the District Attorney must believe that there are legitimate grounds to persue prosecution. As far as justice is concerned, it is his victims that deserve retributive justice under the law. Retributive justice is a theory of justice that considers that punishment, if proportionate, is a morally acceptable response to crime. "Let the punishment fit the crime" is the principle that the severity of penalty for a misdeed or wrongdoing should be reasonable and proportionate to the severity of the infraction. What is a reasonable penalty for victimizing and stealing the innocence of a child? Not one child, but multiple children? Jesus said: "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6)
Sister you and I see justice very differently. To me justice is not a "trial by media" (lynch mob mentality) and condemnation and verdicts of guilt only. I know what I meant and referred to, and this is it:
justice definition

jus·tice (jus′tis)

noun

1. the quality of being righteous; rectitude
2. impartiality; fairness
3. the quality of being right or correct
4. sound reason; rightfulness; validity
5. reward or penalty as deserved; just deserts
6.
1. the use of authority and power to uphold what is right, just, or lawful
2. the personification of this, usually a blindfolded goddess holding scales and a sword
7. the administration of law; procedure of a law court - Webster law dictionary
Brought to trial (Redirected from Brought to justice)

Brought to trial means to calendar a legal case for a hearing, or to bring a defendant to the bar of justice. The simplest definition is "the commencement of the trial in a court by formally calling and swearing in of the witnesses to initiate the trial proceedings." However, much like Pro-rata, it has several different, ambiguous meanings and examples used in the law. To bring to trial is when the process is ongoing. Most often, the terms brought to trial, bring to trial, brought to justice and bring to justice refer to the prosecution at trial of alleged war criminals and political prisoners, as well as those accused of treason or misprision of treason, sexual assault, and other infamous crimes
Fifth amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth amendment
'In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
The above from the bill of rights are applied to each State by the 14th amendment.
Fourteenth amendment - Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
INNOCENCE, PRESUMPTION OF

The indictment or formal charge against any person is not evidence of guilt. Indeed, the person is presumed by the law to be innocent. The law does not require a person to prove his innocence or produce any evidence at all. The Government has the burden of proving a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and if it fails to do so the person is (so far as the law is concerned) not guilty.
Sister wrote: I realize that you have chosen not to comment on my statement referring to one of Tommy's many victims being a Shelton. Would you also brand him a liar?

You have a long history with your posts, so I wouldn't hesitate to brand you a liar, but why would I brand "him" one? I don't even know who this person is or even if he exists or if this even occurred, outside of gossip and slander, or your imagination. I do know "if" this happened, then your person never turned Tommy in when Tommy never attended counseling for being a pedophile as you state the ultimatum was, and I know if push comes to shove that his counselor who knows what he was getting help for could testify to that, and there are zero allegations or complaints filed by your unnamed Shelton, so it appears unlikely your story is true.

I must however express my surprise that you would actually post here under the name of Sister again and think you have any credibility at all after all your boasting about never being identified, and then having Danny confront your husband at the ASI convention about how disappointed he was in you both that you would spread such lies. Even going so far as to you and Johann accusing him of murdering his first wife. When the truth is she was killed instantly when her vehicle was stuck head on by another one, and it's a miracle that their daughter wasn't. Your days of claiming to come and go and observe and report and be a witness even at Shelton family gathering are over and exposed for the lies they were, and your "Unauthorized 3abn history" is in the trash where it deserves to be.

You are the worst example of a Pastor's wife I have ever heard of with all the gossip, slander and trash you've slung around which at best was repeating "hearsay" and adding your own spiteful embellishments, and was at worst was outright and deliberate false witness. And instead of being ashamed when you and your lies were exposed, you lied again, claiming that it never happened despite the witnesses and even the pictures.

I am sure that the adventtalk admins will be here to delete this, and write "Inappropriate content removed" as usual so nobody will see it, but I took the liberty of posting it here on the defender's forum first and here it will stand. I think it very appropriate as you have no credibility, and anything you claim has to be examined under a microscope. Readers need to know that.

3-d
3ABN_Defender
Pat Williams
Posts: 38
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Re: Tommy...

Post by Pat Williams »

I received a reply to the above post on adventtalk, I have had my IP # banned.
This is the message I got on an error page when I tried to go answer another post.
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!
Flagrant disregard for forum rules.
3ABN_Defender
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Breezy
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:41 pm America/Denver

Re: Tommy...

Post by Breezy »

3abn_defender I'm sorry you were banned. That forum is so hilariously one-sided--they certainly love to use the little red pen against those they "don't like." Hmmm, let's see, what is this called? Oh yes, "prejudice." If you dare say one little work they don't like--out comes the little red pen... :lol: :lol: :lol:

But back to the topic of Tommy Shelton. Yes, he did turn himself in to the authorities when it became known to him that there was a warrant for his arrest.

What is interesting about getting warrants in the State of Virginia is that any investigator can get one without a Judge's approval which is what happened in this case. The warrant was so full of errors that one wonders if the investigator actually tried to do her job. She not once talked to Tommy or his lawyer, nor did she ever speak to any of the victims. She even stated he was presently teaching school in Kentucky when in reality Tommy hadn't been at that school since 1981 AND the school had been closed for the last 3 years. Interesting Investigator--don't you think? Sounds like she was paid to sit on her tush.

But how did she know to get a warrant? Who was she talking to and believed? Ahhh, that is the million dollar question. Give you only one guess!!

I will say this much. Tommy Shelton will be declared innocent. How do I know this? Well, let's just say I know without a doubt. You all watch (including those with the little red pens) -- you will see Tommy declared INNOCENT.

Shucks!! In that case, I guess you will have to go with plan D--umm, or is it E? Oh, maybe it is Plan-F...Ah well, anything to get DS out of 3ABN right?
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Breezy
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Re: Tommy...

Post by Breezy »

:lol: Sister says unless 3ABN_Defender tells who he gets his information from, she won't believe it is authentic and that 3ABN_Defender got it "from the wind." :lol: :lol: :lol:

3ABN_Defender doesn't have to tell Sister (Kris Fiscalini) anything.

But I must say I got a good laugh from her post over there. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Lilly
Posts: 82
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John C. Manly

Post by Lilly »

Some say this man is "notorious" for working with clergy abuse. Looks like he is "notorious" for other reasons too.

http://www.themediareport.com/topic-joh ... -index.htm :oops:
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Cynthia
Posts: 618
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Re: John C. Manly

Post by Cynthia »

Lilly wrote:Some say this man is "notorious" for working with clergy abuse. Looks like he is "notorious" for other reasons too.

http://www.themediareport.com/topic-joh ... -index.htm :oops:
Hmmmm... interesting.

Welcome to our forum Lilly, (I am sure you'll do fine, but as always, all new members are advised to read our forum policy and rules before posting in order to prevent future misunderstandings or problems from occurring and to promote healthy discussion ), and thanks for the link and information. I can't say I am even surprised here. It looks to me like Mr Manley is right up their alley and will fit in well with that group. He looks expensive though... Of course they have had all kinds of questions about who is paying for the other attorney etc, and keep trying to imply 3ABN is ( NOT, the defendant is) but doubt they will understand those same questions apply to their side. It is understandable to me that a defendant needs to retain a lawyer, but maybe someone here can explain here to me why it was necessary to retain this l"John C. Manly" ? I thought the State of Virginia had filed the case, and the Prosecutor was going to be "prosecuting"??? And how, if the 2 accusers don't know each other and don't communicate, as was reported (and by one of them in court even), do they both end up with the same attorney?
~ Cindy
Truth
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am America/Denver

Re: John C. Manly

Post by Truth »

Sounds like Attorney Manly has a dubious past. I can't answer your questions Cynthia but I agree with your assessments. It does seem strange that the victims would need a lawyer but of course it is something they can do.

Welcome Lilly. I'm sure you've been reading a lot here.
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